Breeding for Conformation (HELP WANTED!)

I might have missed this somewhere, but is there anything that explains how conformation is inherited?

My initial assumption was just basic averages of the sire and dam's stats, but that would make increasing conformation in future generations almost impossible, since you'll never be able to get any numbers higher than what your highest foundation horses had.

is there some sort of random effect? Or do stats, shows, caring for the horse, and training play into inheritance somehow?

my initial plan was to test it out by breeding two "8 good" store horses i have, but i need to wait until they are old enough :P

Last edited on 2016-02-17 at 13:29:55 by ᴋᴀʜᴢɪᴇ ɪ

It's hard to say, really, since on the old EV there were no apparent numerical values. I was thinking of perhaps buying a couple of pairs of store horses just to mess around with breeding and trying to figure out the confo formula, but if there are other factors involved other than just the confo stats themselves then it would be fruitless to make assumptions based on that alone.

ETA: I have a bunch of all 90+ confo horses and I would love it if I could figure out the formula before I'm ready to breed them. xD

Last edited on 2016-02-16 at 07:30:27 by Kate

There were breeding trials by some on the beta. I don't know what came of those or who was doing them. Hopefully they speak up. :)

I've been assuming the two totals on each trait will be averaged together. I have 2-3 that are nearly 100% and have done breedings.

Kate: know what you mean! I have a line of store tekes i bought solely for conformation, so i'd love to be sure of what i'm doing. fortunately i have a full 20 weeks before that time to figure it out xD

I'd love to see the results of those early breeding trials!
i have one foal born and bred on the recode, and i thought i'd share his conformation results:

If purely average of Parent’s Conformation:
Head: Sire (43) + Dam (86) = 64.5
Neck: Sire (32) + Dam (93) = 62.5
Withers: Sire (98) + Dam (39) = 68.5
Back: Sire (69) + Dam (90) = 79.5
Shoulders: Sire (28) + Dam (59) = 43.5
Legs: Sire (57) + Dam (76) = 66.5
Knees: Sire (60) + Dam (75) = 67.5
Hooves: Sire (87) + Dam (87) = 87

Actual Foal Conformation Results:
Head = 77.73 (13.23 higher)
Neck = 85.67 (23.17 higher)
Withers = 43.82 (24.68 lower)
Back = 82.79 (3.29 higher)
Shoulders = 47.11 (3.61 higher)
Legs = 73.10 (6.6 high)
Knees = 76.75 (9.25 higher)
Hooves = 86.00 (1 lower)

So clearly it’s not simply an average.
Most are higher than expected (ranging from 3.29 points to 23.17 higher than the average), but two were lower than expected (ranging from just 1 point lower to 24.68 lower – the biggest deviance from the average of all differences)

24 points of difference seems like a lot to have as just randomization, so perhaps there's something else going on that I don't quite understand.

Kahzie thanks for sharing. Maybe some part of the percentage is from the grandparents. I was having great luck breeding 6P horses when all four grandparents were 6P. If you go to the Hall of Fame there are several Sparkling horses listed in conformation stat highs.

From the show page:

"Conformation
Conformation is an optional side show which you can enter for extra winnings and for bragging rights. Conformation is based purely on inheritable horse traits, grooming and general care of your horses."

I'm thinking it has to do with all of these factors combined?

That would make sense, Galactic Federation. Genetics are partly based on nurture, that is the parents' lives and then the foal's time in the womb. So that would make things more realistic. A foal from chronically unhealthy parents would be more likely to have flaws.

Also I gotta say I still can't find the conformation shows. Do they even exist yet? It's driving me bonkers.

I'm going bonkers on the same thing Beware

Galactic Federation, i think the results in conformation shows are affected by grooming and general care, but i'm not sure if the inheritance of conformation is affected by those.

as for where exactly the conformation shows are, i'm just as lost as you guys D:

also, i went ahead and did another test breeding. here are my results:

If purely average of Parent’s Conformation:
Head: Sire (92) + Dam (36) = 64
Neck: Sire (88) + Dam (97) = 92.5
Withers: Sire (49) + Dam (74) = 61.5
Back: Sire (96) + Dam (56) = 76
Shoulders: Sire (49) + Dam (98) = 73.5
Legs: Sire (77) + Dam (78) = 77.5
Knees: Sire (77) + Dam (71) = 74
Hooves: Sire (99) + Dam (99) = 99

Actual Foal Conformation Results:
Head = 88.51 (24.51 higher)
Neck = 94.57 (2.07 higher)
Withers = 72.49 (10.99 higher)
Back = 91.30 (15.3 higher)
Shoulders = 85.10 (11. 6 higher)
Legs = 78.79 (1.29 higher)
Knees = 69.40 (4.6 lower)
Hooves = 100 (1 higher)

so clearly they aren't plain averages, which is great, and they seem to be increasing much more than they are decreasing. if no one that did breeding trials earlier sees this and comments, i'll try seeing if there's some sort of pattern :P

Conformation is based on averages w/ a +/- factor thrown in. (I think the plus or minus range varies with the difference between the parents, like +/- 10% rater than +/- 6 points).

At least that was my understanding from the test trials I ran on beta and what Abbey said about it.

In my experience breeding poor to great/excellent in the first generation to "smooth" out the extremes, then pairing good to goods and greats to greats is the best way to work with conformation (while avoiding ever pairing poors with poors (if you have a few in the second gen)).

:) Good information! Thank you.

Here's some more for you all to consider. I bred two of my horses with exceptional conformation (both parents above 90 in all confo stats) and these are the results.



I'm pleased with the improvement on all the sire's stats except Head & Hooves are both several points lower than I would have expected. The rest there is at least some small improvement.

ETA: Because I couldn't help myself and really wanted to know what happened if I bred the exact same pair again, I used some credits and bred the mare again. These are the resulting confo stats from the second foal. Remember, this is the same sire and dam. Now everything except Legs seems logical. xD This is going to drive me nuts!

Head 99.54
Neck 99.49
Withers 99.78
Back 99.70
Shoulders 99.34
Legs 92.22
Knees 94.60
Hooves 97.00

Last edited on 2016-02-19 at 05:52:44 by Kate

With average DWB stats in the 55% range, I'm super jealous of these 90s!

I just bred 2 so I'll add my stats I'm very curious how it all works:

Sire's conformation:
Head 34.00 Poor
Neck 96.00 Perfect
Withers 98.00 Perfect
Back 60.00 Good
Shoulders 96.00 Perfect
Legs 77.00 Good
Knees 79.00 Good
Hooves 85.00 Excellent
Average 78.13

Dam's confirmation
Head 97.00 Perfect
Neck 99.00 Perfect
Withers 96.00 Perfect
Back 91.00 Excellent
Shoulders 99.00 Perfect
Legs 100.00 Perfect
Knees 94.00 Excellent
Hooves 95.00 Excellent
Average 96.38

Foal's confirmation:
Head 84.63 Excellent
Neck 96.48 Perfect
Withers 96.79 Perfect
Back 91.83 Excellent
Shoulders 98.92 Perfect
Legs 97.30 Perfect
Knees 82.76 Excellent
Hooves 85.00 Excellent
Average 91.71

So if I do (sire)+(dam)/2= Average ->Foal Result
Head 34.00 + 97.00/2=65.50 -> 84.63
Neck 96.00 + 99.00/2=97.50 -> 96.48
Withers 98.00 + 96.00/2=97.00 -> 96.79
Back 60.00 + 91.00/2=75.50 -> 91.83
Shoulders 96.00 + 99.00/2=97.50 -> 98.92
Legs 77.00 + 100.0/2=88.50 -> 97.30
Knees 79.00 + 94.00/2=86.50 -> 82.76
Hooves 85.00 + 95.00/2=90.00 -> 85.00
Average 78.13 + 96.38/2=87.25 -> 91.71

***Second Breeding:***

2nd sire:
Head 87.00 Excellent
Neck 77.00 Good
Withers 97.00 Perfect
Back 86.00 Excellent
Shoulders 90.00 Excellent
Legs 92.00 Excellent
Knees 85.00 Excellent
Hooves 95.00 Excellent
Average 88.63

2nd Dam:
Head 48.00 Poor
Neck 96.00 Perfect
Withers 38.00 Poor
Back 96.00 Perfect
Shoulders 99.00 Perfect
Legs 70.00 Good
Knees 68.00 Good
Hooves 59.00 Good
Average 71.75

2nd Foal:
Head 64.52 Good
Neck 74.87 Good
Withers 65.39 Good
Back 90.26 Excellent
Shoulders 95.39 Excellent
Legs 77.43 Good
Knees 76.66 Good
Hooves 69.00 Good
Average 76.69

(sire)+(dam)/2= Average ->Foal Result
Head 87.00 + 48.00/2= 67.50 -> 64.52
Neck 77.00 + 96.00/2= 86.50 -> 74.87
Withers 97.00 + 38.00/2= 67.50 -> 65.39
Back 86.00 + 96.00/2= 91.00 -> 90.26
Shoulders 90.00 + 99.00/2= 94.50 -> 95.39
Legs 92.00 + 70.00/2= 81.00 -> 77.43
Knees 85.00 + 68.00/2= 76.50 -> 76.66
Hooves 95.00 + 69.00/2= 82.00 -> 69.00
Average 88.63 + 71.75/2= 80.19 -> 76.69


Hope this helps. I'm going to try and figure out if there is an actual equation to estimate closer of how it's actually done :-) I have a couple more breedings planned so I'll update :-)