Issues In The Art Community

Since we're having discussions on other topics such as the game economy and what we'd like to see next as far as decor, I thought I'd open up a discussion on some things that I've thinking about lately. Hopefully just to open up a dialogue and see if we can find some solutions.

Ok, so... don't come for me, but I think the art community has a bit of a problem right now. Hear me out.

I've noticed over the last year that there is a slight problem with actually getting paid as well as receiving recolors. I understand that life happens, but it hasn't escaped me that artists who don't require payment first before starting sometimes get stiffed, while other times people pay in advance and then life derails the artist and those who already paid never receive their recolor OR a refund.

It seems to be causing a lot of trust issues. Rules are getting lengthier on all sorts of art sales, and it makes me sad. I feel like doing art on this game has become less of a joy for many artists as well as players who buy the art.

What I'm going to say next is not aimed at anyone in particular, these are just things that I've seen that have stuck in my mind. I honestly don't remember any player names involved, so I'm truly not calling anyone out. It's just the instance that I recall.

I've seen some artists price their auctions and recolors at a really high price, as is their right, but it almost ensures which players will get to buy their art as I know a lot of us just don't have the EVD or the EVC to match those kinds of numbers. It can be frustrating for sure.

I've also seen some artists have to put explicit rules on their sales to keep players from taking advantage by taking up multiple slots or buying all the adopts in one go. I would have thought it was just common courtesy to only take one recolor slot, or only "AB" one adopt. The fact that such rules have to be stated by artists is a sad statement.

This next one happened to me a while back, but someone (I don't remember who because it got sorted) had the highest bid on one of my character designs, and when I asked for payment, they promptly told me they "didn't realize they didn't have that much" and could I please make an exception. I don't know if anyone else has had that experience, and while I understand that it does happen, it certainly isn't fun for anyone involved. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is please just be mindful and respectful of each other. I'd like to see the art community having more fun like it used to.

Please feel free to add your thoughts and suggestions on how we can mend things.

Last edited on 2020-10-17 at 05:40:21 by maplɛ

Unfortunately, most of the issues are the etiquette and the fact that many people either don't know them, don't care, or don't listen. And with people being people, it's not something that's easily fixed.

Personally I've had the issue of paying for recolors and then never receiving them dating way back to my first year of playing, so I don't think that in particular is a new issue (though of course still worth noting). I have also noticed a growing lack of trust, as you mentioned, or at least I feel it to be growing. A big part of that for me personally is that recently we've had a fair number of older players suddenly return and begin selling art again, and I am happy to see them back and excited to get the chance to buy their art, but I do worry that they might leave again soon and I don't want to lose money. This is why I like to wait until one round of a sale is completed (unless I like.. really want that recolor because I can't live without it lol) to make sure they're actually gonna do them. And that doesn't just apply to returning players, it applies to pretty much everyone except people I've bought from plenty times before and trust. I myself am fortunate enough to have a pretty large sum of money so ultimately losing out on some uncompleted recolor payments here and there isn't gonna hurt me, but for a player with less money this is of course a pretty big issue. Also, it just kinda sucks to not get that art you wanted! Obviously real life comes first and I'm not at all blaming people for leaving art sales unfinished when more important stuff gets in the way, but I also think the feeling of distrust is valid, especially for A) folks who don't have much money and are hesitant to lose it, B) people preparing to spend a whole lot of money on an auction, and C) people looking to pay in credits, which either cost them a bunch of EVD or real currency to acquire.
And I am not calling anyone in particular out in this post, by the way, nor am I referring to any specific experiences! This is just talking about a common theme I've experienced. And again, I know real life comes first over art sales for fictional currency and I'm not blaming anyone for this; I'm just simply detailing my point of view and my reasons for hesitation.

Last edited on 2020-10-17 at 06:06:17 by Raptor

As always, "promise sales" are at the discretion of the seller and the buyer. It's not an enforceable point of sale and both players take the risk of not receiving items or money when making these trades. 

If you think the rules on this version are getting long you should have seen art sales on the old EV oh boy haha. Half the page would be a list of Do and Don't and so many limitations on character designs, I'm really glad people aren't as strict as they used to be now. 

Impatience is probably the only recurring problem I've seen flaring up recently, constantly pestering for when something will be finished or an update is really off putting to people and cause unintended consequences. I haven't really noticed the other things you mention if I'm honest, but I'm a very selective buyer in the first place and tend to go with people who I know have been consistently active on Equiverse. New artists and people who tend to take unexpected hiatuses I don't take much of an interest in- the same goes for credit only sales, too much of a risk imo. I wouldn't say I have trust issues with them, I just choose carefully where to put my money per se. 

Having to tell people not to buy up all the slots and adopts is a really universal thing in the art community not just on EV, people are just greedy in general. Art is becoming very much a secondary income, and with a lot of the nicer artists moving on why play the game as intended when people will dump loads of money on a piece that looks half decent? So I'm not surprised some prices might have been increased- again people are greedy heh. 

As for people getting stiffed, the only (effective) method I've personally had is to not release the finished recolour until it has been paid. Same custom wise- I often won't start work on them until they have been paid since it's a lot of my time and effort to make something for nothing. 

I don't think there is anything to fix here really. What you're describing isn't a problem unique to Equiverse, and probably seems a bit more prevalent as we have a lot of younger and returning players who are likely to leave unexpectedly or don't know/understand art etiquette at first. In the end, it's just losing a bit of fictional money and a learning experience if it doesn't work out. 

I am glad that you pointed out some of these issues Mouse because all that you’ve said is very true. 

As a seller, I try to price my art at a reasonable price, and if I don’t know how much I should charge I like to ask ;) Asking for help is okay, especially if you aren’t sure. 

As a buyer, I like to support my friends and the art community whenever I can, but sometimes that can be hard when things are priced so incredibly expensive.

It is sad that artists price there art so incredibly expensive and people that want to buy it can’t because they just don’t have the funds available. And for me that is really sad and disappointing because I enjoy supporting my friends and the art community but sometimes we just can’t give those incredible artists any sales or support because it is so incredibly expensive! 

I know that some artists like to go all out, but sometimes going all out isn’t the way to go, I get that a lot of time, effort and concentration was put into the art done, tho some seem to think that because they have done so much to the tag or whatever they are selling that they need to price it so incredibly expensive and it is sad that they do all this work and they get no sales because it is too expensive. 

Last edited on 2020-10-17 at 07:10:43 by Tall Oak Stables

As a buyer, I personally have noticed this occasionally, I have never actually just been stood up, but people have left the game without finishing the recolors or whatever. In most of these cases, they come back eventually and we get refunds, but I'm one of those members with enough EVD that like 60k doesn't matter to me, so I really don't care much about getting my money back, at least compared to getting the art. And anyway, I don't see this often, so I personally don't have too many trust issues as long as I try to steer away from artists with a really bad reputation for never getting it done.

As an artist, I probably am guilty of causing some trust issues, in between my busy schedule, unreliable art program, and lack of motivation to do things, but I do get everything done eventually, and try to warn clients about the time frame they could be looking at, if, say, my art program breaks (again), or I have extra work (RL or EV), or something in RL comes up and I can't get to my computer for a while.

Tbh, this isn't really an uncommon problem on any art-based website or EV. I've been stiffed out of EVD plenty of times because the artist just drops off the face of the Earth. Understandably I can see how frustrating that can be for buyers, especially those who don't have much currency to begin with. Losing a bit of EVD for me isn't a huge deal, but I definitely begin to lose trust in certain artists who consistently don't finish tag sales. It's been too many times I've purchased tags and the artist doesn't finish my tag before starting a whole new tag sale. To me, that is frustrating.
I think creating your own circle of trustworthy artists to purchase from is a smart thing to do imo.

I've had many people back out of sales on me both on here and dA for real currency after making a bid. That is way too frustrating to deal with imo. Those people that decide to withdraw from my sales are usually warned, then blacklisted if they do it again.

As a seller's perspective, I deal with my art and customers professionally regardless if it is fake money or real money. A sale is a sale. I feel like I've gained a pretty good reputation over the years of being here (however I've been on a hiatus for awhile lately) that I don't have to worry about players not trusting me to get things done. If I know I won't be able to finish something, refunds and apologies are issued immediately.
And as for your point Tall Oak Stables, I completely disagree on high quality art being too pricey. You're paying for the quality. I'm not going to damper the quality of my art just to price it at low costs. I just don't enjoy that concept. Of course I am going to price my art higher if I put more effort and time into it. Time is money, so being paid fairly is important. Much of the time I do auctions so it really is up to the buyers how much they want to spend on my art and what they think my art is worth.