Discussion: Showing

There are a couple of factors about showing that we would like to open up for discussion, regarding changes that could be made. None of these are set in stone, but we would like to get a feeling on everyone's take on changes regarding these two items, especially in light of the recently addressed showing bug.

Here are the two factors that could be adjusted:

Luck: Increase currently calculated luck factor that is based off of training - this factor's impact decreases the higher a horse's training level gets, so the impact is greater for horses that are at a lower training level. This is a way of factoring in a positive effect from training or other luck elements like a horse having a particularly good day for performance.

Randomness: Add more randomness to show performance. This is intended to represent factors that a rider cannot predict upon show day, such as favorable or unfavorable track conditions, a horse getting spooked, or any number of random events that could add or detract from their overall competitiveness in showing.

These two items are the only ones currently up for consideration, so please focus on just those two. How do you feel about each of these being tweaked? Is there one you prefer over the other? The intent with both factors is to add increased reality to showing, because out in the world there are many factors to be considered. If you have any thoughts, concerns, or feedback, please feel free to share. The purpose of the discussion is to get a good feeling on everyone's take on the issue.

I have no idea what to think as my horses are still experiencing a showing bug. Maybe to soon to think too hard about new showing tweaks? (At least for me lol)

So far I'm not liking the changes. My horses havent even placed in a show since Tuesday when they were previously doing well. The placing horses in some cases have less tack bonuses, less stats and less training than my horses. I always make sure my horses are cared for and trained before showing and that they are at the upper end of the stats range for their grade.

Example- http://www.equiverse.com/horse.php?id=754691  look at the show at the top of her list. I understand random luck factor but I feel she should have at least placed. It would be one thing if it were a few of my horses or winning less shows over all but not having even placed since Tuesday is more than just a single bad luck day. 

So while I'm definitely not saying my horses should win all the time or place every show just that I dont feel I should be doing as badly as I am. Its just a little disheartening and I do hope things go better for the shows that are about to run and this whole post really is just a short rant about a few really bad luck days. 

I like the idea of luck playing more of a factor as opposed to randomness... There's an element of player control, still, with players who spend the time on daily care/training having a reward for that effort. I feel like it makes sense to an extent for the "realism" in that a well trained horse is more likely to do well even with the "random" element factored in. (A well-trained horse will recover better from a spook or cope better with poor track conditions, where that type of thing is more likely to get to a horse with less training.)

I like the idea of both factoring in to at least some extent, which I know they currently do, but if one were to be weighed more heavily, I'd prefer it to be luck.

At this point, I'm with Alicia--until the issues are resolved, it feels to soon to tackle changes.

I don't especially love the luck or randomness factors, simply because we don't even know what the formula is (we now know the components that make it up, but don't know exactly what to breed for) and adding in more luck would give us even less chance to catch issues as they arise.

I also have concerns about how long-standing the showing bug was. Since the changes feel so drastic, I'm wondering if it hasn't existed for a generation or more of horses. And if it has, is it really fair to call it a "bug" since people were breeding based on the way things were working? Just a pondering.

Last edited on 2018-05-17 at 19:13:16 by Sonoma

<sup>@Breja: Shows will most likely take a couple days to stabilise before we can accurately judge whether there's been an improvement or not. They've been bugged for a while hence why you've probably been having such bad luck. If it is indeed fixed, I'm assuming anyone showing correctly should at least be winning some of the time, and people shouldn't be dominating shows like at current. So I'm curious as to whether things will be working right in a couple days or if it still seems to be bugged. I've been doubling my profits for the last couple days, so it does seem strange but I'm willing to wait and see what happens. 

@Sonoma: Given that the longstanding bug was show scores not being stored correctly then yes, it is a bug, just one that wasn't noticed unfortunately. The way shows work encourages low non-speciality stats, or at least not in excess with the current tweak, and I don't see anyone that actively shows not doing that, so I don't think the current method is wrong. But it will be interesting to see what happens when shows stabilise properly.  


Personally I'd prefer more weight on luck than randomness as an initial feeling, but like others I also feel it's too soon to judge given the chaos with shows currently.</sup> 

I want to give it a couple more days to see what is going on. I did notice in one of that lost. Lost to a horse with higher non-specialty stats but it was older and had reached level 5 training my horse had only reached 4th level. The older better trained horse won even though my horse had more points in it's field.

i’d want to know the entire formula for determining show results before formulating an opinion on altering said formula. i do think the ideas are interesting, but without having the whole picture I don’t feel I can make a decision either way.

^{I don't understand why exactly you need to be given the show formula? If you're just going to be given it outright then that kind of just detracts some of the challenge and fun from the game. Not knowing and trying to work out what makes a good show horse is kind of the point. It's not like we were just given the formula to stats inheritance, someone sat down and dedicated time to working it out. We've very kindly been given some components to showing to help us out, and no doubt it'll be a little clearer what exactly makes a good horse when showing settles down. Just seems kind of rude to repeatedly ask for what's more like a behind the scenes game mechanic.} 

(Just to let everyone know, there was one more bug with showing.  I have uploaded a fix and hopefully everything should be working going forward.  Many apologies.)

@Maple: I didn’t ask for the show formula, I said I’d want to know what it was forming an opinion. I disagree that wanting to fully understand something before proposing changes to it is rude, especially given that previous requests for more information haven’t been answered yet.

Last edited on 2018-05-18 at 05:43:50 by kahzie

I have mixed feelings about the whole things.

If I have it my way, I would've revamp the whole show system entirely (change stats system, add personalities, conformation, and more). However, that's extremely unpopular opinion.

For now, I want some time to adjust to all new fixes before think about this topic. 

I too would like some time to figure out how the showing method is going to work (de-buuged and with the new tweaks) before any more tweaks are made. 

To be clear, we are discussing changes but that doesn't mean they are going to happen immediately. It just means we're getting an idea of what everyone thinks.

Okay, before I can contribute to this in anyway I need to confirm the training level thing. 

Currently, does a horse's training level contribute to it doing better in shows? So say level 5 does better than level 3? 

It seems like this is something that has been given as information in the past but I have been told yes and no to this. So just curious.