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Changes to Horse Grade-Up

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Changes to Horse Grade-Up

#126290 Posted on 2017-11-01 14:05:36

There are a couple issue currently with how grading up (increasing showing grade) works for horses currently, and we're opening up a conversation here for some potential changes to how the system is handled. This discussion is being held here in the forums so that everyone a chance to participate if desired, and so we can collectively develop a consensus on the topic.

The primary issue with the current system is that horses who haven’t been graded up yet can enter shows they technically shouldn’t be able to; i.e. they're entering shows of the previous grade, not the one their current stats reflect. This consistently is reported as a bug, however it is simply how the game works currently due to our current automatic grading-up system for horses, which occurs along with the cron run.

The potential fix for this issue - which would save the server some stress as well - would be to switch to a manual grade up system where horses need to have their grade increased manually with a button push. Under this system they will not be able to enter shows until they have been graded up. You can think of this as equivalent to how stat-boosts from horse training are handled, where horses are unable to be trained again until they have their stat boost applied; it would be functionally similar.

So the question for you all is what do you think of the manual grade-up system that is being proposed as a solution to our current system's troubles? Please feel free to voice your thoughts below. c:


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#126303 Posted on 2017-11-01 15:11:18

I like the idea of Manual Grade-Up system. My biggest concern is upgrading bunch of horses at same time. Stat Boost for 5+ horses are already pain to do so. It would be nice to have "Grade Up # Horses" and "Boost # Horses" option so I don't have to manually click on every single horse. 


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Bye
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#126309 Posted on 2017-11-01 15:20:47

I really like the idea of a manual upgrade.  With currently over 400 horses, I don't currently find it all that arduous to run through and hit all my stat boosts for the day.  I actually like it, because it gives me a chance to look at my horses from time to time.  And, it seems like it would be really rewarding to see how many of my horses broke into a new showing grade each day.  Also could be a handy reminder for those who like to put horses in riding schools when they are in the bottom half of their stat range for their showing grade - there will be no missing it when a horses needs to switch from shows to the riding school.

So, sounds like a great idea to me!


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#126316 Posted on 2017-11-01 15:38:18

So long as there's an icon (like the stat boosts) to grade up, I would agree with it.  That way I can do them while I go through my divisions.  I'm one of the people putting their horses through lower grades while showing (sometimes with a horse that's +20 stats over the grade) so that they show better, but I wouldn't mind keeping it all fair.  c:  A 'grade all horses up' button would be awesome too, if only to save time for people like me with a mass number of horses.


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#126319 Posted on 2017-11-01 15:49:24

- Will this be linked with training boosts (i.e.: horse can't enter shows if a training boost is waiting)? Otherwise you will still have the issue of horses over stats in the show.

- Will horses be removed from current shows if they reach a new level block? They shouldn't be, but if not then you can still (easily) have horses with more stats than level in the show.

CRON/progression reset runs for me at 10pm so there are often days when I do two days of EV separated by an hour or two (I'll do one EV day at 9pm and one at 10:30pm after progression has reset). Because of this, and the fact that shows run on a timer from when they were created, I often have horses that are entered in 20 shows at once. If a horse places well in the first lot of shows and earns a lot of stats, they frequently make the next level # of stats while being already entered in another lot of shows at the lower level.

Horse has 245 stats (N3).

03:00 EVT: Enter Horse in 10 N3 shows that run in 12 hours (15:00 EVT).
04:00 EVT: CRON runs and progression resets.
05:00 EVT: Progress account. Horse gained +2 stats from treat and now has 247 (still N3). Enter Horse in 10 N3 shows that run in 20 hours (01:00 EVT).
15:00 EVT: First lot of shows (entered at 03:00 EVT) run. Horse places well and earns +10 stats, giving them 257 stats and putting them into into N4.
01:00 EVT: Second lot of shows (entered at 05:00 EVT) run.

(I am 100% against the suggestion of manual level progression if horses will be removed from shows they are already entered in when they progress to the next level.)


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#126322 Posted on 2017-11-01 16:02:40

No, it won't be linked with training boosts in any way, shape, or form. I simply used that as a way of explaining how it would work, because the concept is very similar.

As for removing horses from shows, I highly doubt that would happen. I haven't confirmed this with Abbey but I'm relatively certain it would only apply to shows you are going to enter, not ones that a horse is already entered into.


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#126323 Posted on 2017-11-01 16:11:23

I'm all for it then. :)

{It won't actually prevent horses with stats over the level maximum from being in shows of the lower level, but I don't think you can do that with the way shows currently run on a timer without penalizing players.}

Last edited on 2017-11-01 at 16:21:30 by Almárë


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#126324 Posted on 2017-11-01 16:20:05

I don't really like this idea, I riding school my horses unless their stats are higher than they should be for that grade, which gives them an advantage in shows. So I don't want to take away that advantage.


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#126330 Posted on 2017-11-01 17:06:19

I like the idea of a manual grade up system. Would make it easier to keep track of each horse's progression. Maybe make it with the ''Progress All'' as an option - so you can use that if you feel that's more to your liking

EDIT TO ADD:
I don't find there's a problem with the system as it is now. Yes, sometimes you get a little advantage over others because your horse was due to move up etc - next day it might be the ther way around. Your horse is entered in a show where a competing horse is due to move up. For me that's no big deal

Last edited on 2017-11-02 at 02:03:21 by Nimbus


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#126331 Posted on 2017-11-01 17:10:46

Just to clarify a point;

If you enter shows and then add stats, it makes no difference to show placings.  Show "scores" are created as soon as the horse is entered into the show. Any stats gained after that will not contribute towards that show.


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#126345 Posted on 2017-11-01 19:20:37

  I am all for this as I do visit every horse every day. I boost each when they are due I can hit a second button while I am right there :))


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#126382 Posted on 2017-11-01 22:02:27

It's a good decision, I think, and it doesn't seem too hard to progress a large number of horses because it's a rare occasion when all horses move to the next grade in the same moment.

It will help to keep track on the progress of the horses. I would suggest adding some sort of indicator to show how far a horse is from the next grade, similar to Player levels.

Last edited on 2017-11-01 at 22:03:55 by Rook II


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#126384 Posted on 2017-11-01 22:36:14

I have about 500 horses i go through each day. I have stopped training them because it is so taking to hit that button. It would be ok if i had fast internet.... but i live here in Montana and sometimes it takes forever to load the horses page. I am always going through and pairing my horses up, looking at their stats, and documenting their progress. I really don't need a reason to look at my horses any more then I already do haha. anyway, I would rather not see an option like the training one. I would rather see an option to train (for shows and training) all the horses in the division selected. The button clicking process started out ok, but with all these new updates there are more and more things to click and it is becoming taxing. Thanks for asking us about this btw. 


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#126388 Posted on 2017-11-01 23:20:46

I'm not sure I understand what the exact issue is with the existing system. From what I understand it progresses something like this:
1. Player progresses their account
2. HorseA is level N5. Gets treated, etc, so their stats increase. Perhaps some of yesterday's shows run too. This puts their stats in the same range as L1 horses, but they remain classed as N5.
3. HorseA is entered in shows. These are all N5, to match their current (incorrect) level.
4. Some time later cron runs, and HorseA gets moved to L1 level.
5. From there everything works as it should, until the next time the horse is on the cusp of two levels.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

If so, I can see how the horse does get a small advantage from having stats slightly higher than the stat range for their current level, but it seems like this won't last any longer than a day, and will affect at most 10 shows, then nothing for a while. And the advantage will be no larger than a day's worth of stats, which is usually not that much. It also doesn't seem like something a player can easily take advantage of, and will instead affect all players at one point or another. This advantage seems to be both small and short-lived, so it seems unnecessary to change it, especially if the new system will be quite time consuming for the player. If it was automated in some way (e.g. automatic once horse reaches minimum stats, or all horses can be moved up via a single button) I'd say there's no harm in changing it, but a manual system seems to be little gain for a lot of pain.

If I have not correctly understood the issue please disregard the above comments, and I'll make a new comment once I get a good explanation of the issue.


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#126437 Posted on 2017-11-02 09:28:49

Yes, that list is correct.

The issues are essentially three, as I already explained above:

- horses being entered in shows beneath their grade (whether this is an advantage or disadvantage depends on your viewpoint)
- as a result, those horses' show entries/ability to enter in those shows gets reported as a bug
- and also additional load on the server because cron has to handle grade increases along with everything else it does

Automating the system would be redundant because it would send us back to the situation with increased server load - automating things essentially sends you back to that problem. The point of the manual system would be to allow players to keep their horses at their full grade at all times (rather than waiting for it to be updated), which in a single stroke would remove the issue of bug reports about the horse's stat level not matching its current grade [because the grade hasn't been updated by cron], and would reduce load on the server from having to have cron handle grading-up. There is also the additional caveat that users who log in around the time cron runs have an odd situation with grading for their horses, because depending on their login time they could be in between their shows, as Almárë was saying above.

Essentially it comes down to either making the change or not - if so, updating grades will need to be done by hand. It will cause less server load and help users who show around cron time, but it will also require button clicks. If not, players will still have to wait for cron for grade updates, and the server load will remain, and players who log in near to cron may see horses split up between show grades.

Last edited on 2017-11-02 at 09:30:29 by River


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