[ADDED] *modify breeding formula

The current breeding formula includes a bonus in a foal's discipline-specific stats if both parents are the same discipline. I suggest that there is also a 'bonus' that reduces the non-speciality stats to something lower than just the average of the mare and stallion. 

right now, the formula to determine non-discipline stats for a same-discipline mare and stallion with 0 added stats to their base non-discipline stats is (mare stat + stallion stat) x .5

I suggest that that formula be tweaked to something like (mare stat + stallion stat) x .3

this will allow horses bred from post-recode foundation to eventually be bred down to 0 non-discipline stats, making them competitive with pre-recode bred horses that already have 0 while still providing a multigenerational challenge that requires strict monitoring of stats, treats, and disciplines 

I suggest this change be done ASAP as it affects daily game play decisions.

Last edited on 2018-01-29 at 18:20:25 by ᴋᴀʜᴢɪᴇ ɪ

I agree for the most part! I would suggest .4 or even .45 so it is more challenging and requires more time. But I guess I like a challenge!

(No idea why this text is so large. This happens sometimes on my phone.)

Last edited on 2017-08-23 at 12:31:51 by Abbey

But.. having them there doesn't take away anything from the active stats?

I don't understand how they'd be "competitive" with pre-recode horses when they don't negate anything - they have no impact on show scores, negatively or positively.

I'd like to avoid unnecessary tweaks wherever possible.

Is it literally just an aesthetic challenge or something (in which case, wouldn't it be more of a challenge to leave it as is?)?  Please explain because I don't understand haha.

No, it's not just aesthetic! :)

In the same way that having high non-specialty stats is a detriment when showing (by falsely boosting a horse into a higher show level than its specialty stats warrant), having lower non-specialty stats is a boost in showing. 

Currently the lowest total non-specialty stats a horse bred from post-recode stock can have is ~45 (15 being the lowest a store has, i believe). They can't get any lower, since they will always be the average of mother + father

The lower the non-specialty stats the better! That is why they do really well for breeding and selling.

Because the show levels are based on stat numbers, the higher the stats, the high show level your horse is in. 
Now say that you have a Shetland (pre-recode lined) with 6 non-specialty stats competing against a Mustang with 52 non-specialty stats. They both have the same area of total stats, but because the Shetland has less non-specialty stats, most of its stats is in the correct areas, basically giving the horse the win.

Now because we can't make our own lines and get our own single digits like pre-recode lines can, it basically gives them the show advantage. 
I support this suggestion, if we work hard enough then I believe we should be able to get stats that nice.

One alternative is for the horse's grade to be based on its discipline-specific stats only, rather than the current system where it's based on total stats. Then the non-discipline stats would be truly irrelevant to show performance, and store horses and short-lined horses wouldn't be at a disadvantage against those with the same total stats but who've had time to get the non-discipline stats down, which would take many generations.

^ UlyssesBlue's idea would also open up the breeding horse market as you could breed to horses of different specialties without it being a huge negative impact on the showing potential of the foal.

I do very strongly support the original suggestion; breeding the non-discipline stats down should be something that's possible, in my opinion. Other people outlined the "why" very well above, I think, with how it relates to showing.

However...

I really don't care for the idea of non-specialty stats just no longer counting... the change to overall stats determining showing level, but the specific stats being counted toward success was one of my favorite things about the changes made to showing in this incarnation of the game, because it rewards specific player effort.

In a sense I feel like that would remove any real strategy from things like treating - treating is not really a strategy-heavy system, but a lot of people look at balancing total stat gain from things like sugar/hay/peppermints vs. the more targeted specific treats. Making it so that only the stats in the "right" areas even count pretty much removes any incentive to treat specifically, since you could boost total stat count with special treats with no negative consequence due to the allocation being random. That's one of the areas of the game where I see the most difference in term of player strategy and individual goals, and I feel like a change like that would all but wipe that out.
Also, and I in no way mean this to sound harsh, but I think there should be ways of playing the game that don't work as well as others. (I don't believe there's one true way to play the game itself; any player should play as they want to as long as they have fun!) But experimenting with different methods of playing to reach your personal goals, and having some not work out, and learning the strategies that help you get to your goals is a big part of playing *any* game, I think. Turning showing into a system that basically no longer allows you to make 'mistakes' or has down sides to a given strategy seems... so bland.

I also think that breeding a line of horses in the same discipline for generations in order to maximize those dominant stats and minimize the rest is one of the most common long-term goals for a lot of players... those horses do get a bit of an 'edge' when it comes to showing, but I feel like that's at least in part a return on the effort put into them. (And that edge is not insurmountable - I have second gen horses routinely reaching and succeeding in National level shows, and foundations easily hitting Regional levels.)

I'm not sure if I can even quite articulate why I dislike the idea of that sort of system so much, but I really do.

I agree with OTW 100%, on all points. As a member who enjoys a challenge and working a long time to reach my goals, I am entirely in favor of a tweak to the breeding formula (even, as I mentioned before, a very tiny one: from .5 to .47!) but I disagree with the concept of changing the showing system to remove the reward for careful breeding and treating. Increasing the reward for care and hard work, yes please! Taking it away? No thanks! 

Yes, i definitely agree with North and Only The Wind. I love the system we have now, and think that allowing the breeding-down of stats would be much more goal-oriented/challenging/interesting. 

I agree.
I really don't like the idea of non-specialty stats not being a factor in showing. I can't speak for everyone, but I think most breeders try and breed down their non-specialty stats for showing. If we just ended up counting by specialty stats, that seems like a waste to all of their work. 

And honestly it sounds like a fun challenge to breed horses until all stats are zero, then start boosting up desired stats and breeding from them upwards. I would support stats going down to zero for that challenge alone.

And I agree. Why change the showing system to make it easy on people? There's no fun in that.

I agree something needs to be done. I bred some of my mares to studs with high non discipline stats and they stink in shows. I have stopped using those studs but it's hard to find anything with low non discipline stats. I do own a few but I also want to avoid inbreeding making my stud searches extremely difficult. I have found low non discipline stat studs but the owners haven't been on in forever (yes I left them messages in case they come back). If something isn't done my lines are going to come to a standstill and I won't have anything to show. I also think the Tt for mustangs needs to be a nicer pattern than hearts.

HiddenAcresMustangs brings up a good point

I have seen tons of otherwise very desirable horses that I decide not to use for stud/brood because their non-discipline stats are too high. Some players feed haycubes/sugarcubes/peppermints to boost all stats regardless of what category they end up in. 

Also, if the breeding formula allowed for a bit more leniency in the way that players choose to treat their horses (while still maintaining the set discipline bonus) it might encourage more crossing of lines. For example, a dressage horse and an endurance horse (who share high intelligence stats) will have a foal that is more competitive in either of its parent's disciplines than would a driving x jumping foal (because there are no common discipline stats)

very much agree with this idea! would love to see it implemented!